Terrorism has no religion..
It's shame how many American movies and series ,symbolize the bad guys with Muslim characters, as in 24 series, all the terrorists either speak Arabic, or wear hats with "No god but Allah" wrote on it. why?. Islam is an old religion on this earth for 1428 years now, why recently we see this campaign against Islam ,in every nationality ,in every denomination there are bad and good people ,but why suddenly Islam became the identity of the terrorism. why every terror on this earth is made with name of Islam, the religion of peace?!
In the other hand we see movies or TV report on the Buddhists and how peaceful they are ,or reports about other peaceful groups ,why??...what message ,and who want to send it , and to whom ?..what will the new generations from different nationalities will have toward each other?....
Our prophet Mohammed , used to say to his soldiers to be merciful , not to kill any woman, child , an old man , monk , chaplain, not to destroy any land .
we salute each other with " Peace for you " ..
There is no religion from god instigate terrorism..
I hope that the world will realize that Islam Is a peaceful religion ..
Mama.
In the other hand we see movies or TV report on the Buddhists and how peaceful they are ,or reports about other peaceful groups ,why??...what message ,and who want to send it , and to whom ?..what will the new generations from different nationalities will have toward each other?....
Our prophet Mohammed , used to say to his soldiers to be merciful , not to kill any woman, child , an old man , monk , chaplain, not to destroy any land .
we salute each other with " Peace for you " ..
There is no religion from god instigate terrorism..
I hope that the world will realize that Islam Is a peaceful religion ..
Mama.
posted by Mama | 5:03 AM
48 Comments:
Mama,
Since 911 there has been a saying among Americans mostly on talk radio; "All Muslims aren't terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim".
For the past 35 years (Since the Palestinian attack at the 1972 Olympics.) the majority of the terror attacks have been from Muslim perpetrators.
Too many people are threatened by Islam's fatawas, proclamations and executions of people for trivial and minor infractions. Very few societies in the world, or throughout time, have behaved so savagely.
I understand your desire to be respected, along with your faith.
I think your heart and mind are truly human. I wonder about the humanity of some of your imans and jihadists.
It's really interesting for me that Americans think that all terrorists are Muslims by the time America has just been terrorized by a Korean citizen and was not called a terrorist.
I think Americans live in a bubble called "stereotype" in which they hear and believe what other tell them.
I think as Mama said, terrorism has no relegion because what America did in illegally invading Iraq is terrorism, what happened at Abu Ghraib is terroris, the rape of the teenager in Mahmoudiya by US troops is terrorism. So do Americans still think that all terrorists are Muslims?
Regards.
Its a shame some people are so narrow minded, sterotypes like all italians are mafia gangsters and all catholic preists are child molesters. all Irishmen are drunks and all african american are lazy people, over her in the U.K., some bigots beleive all Jamaicans are pot dealers and Polish ladies are prostitutes.
the day bigoting stops is the day when humans can live together in peace..respect other and you will be respected.
furthermore and just to remove this from my chest...
Iraqi Bloggers anouncing that "The Shia are Killing (us)" was a statement I totally despise, If you feel that your better class "Ottoman mentality" because your Sunni, and all Shia are "Shroog" who are killing (you) then your a bigot too...your no better than any other bigot.
whos going to clean up this mess?
Great post, Mammy. Hope all is well with you and family.
Good post Mama,
and GREAT comment ripama, prior to that stereotype, the common stereotype for Arabs and Muslims was 'Rich fat dudes with moustaches'.
The stereotype of Muslims as gun-toting life-hating maniacs is something that is mostly our fault, it's not entirely our fault, but the most part of the blame lies on us. USA don't hate Islam, they just hate the dudes that bombed their twin towers and has been wrecking havoc ever since. They did it in the name of God, so what do u expect? It's our duty to present to them the correct meaning of Islam and to fight those extremists who shaped that stereotype in the west first before the West itself.
Ripama,
Hmmm, how about the IRA, Tamil Tigers, the Irgun, Luis Posada Carriles or any one of the tens of other violently anti-Castro Cubans, ETA, the Oklahoma bomber, the Black Panthers? I can go on but I think you get my point.
For the past 35 years the majority of terror attacks making it to American television screens may be from Muslims, I don't know, but perhaps it is time you started questioning what you see on television. I guess the recent Tamil Tiger suicide bombings just don't make it to your screen. Then again it is only foreigners they are killing so I suppose they do not really count.
Now the Palestinian attack at the 1972 Olympics was by nationalist terrorists not Muslim terrorists - but I guess us Ayrabs all look the same.
And wondering about the humanity of some of the imams, can you please explain to me the humanity of some of the Christians that justified Slavery, Apartheid or slaughtering Catholics. From your logic you must take part of the responsibility for that.
For every Korean who walked into a school and shot 50 people, there are hundreds of islamic terrorists who blew themselves up in public places around the world in the name of Allah to kill a few infidels. For every Oklahoma city bombing, there are dozens of cars in Baghdad, Jerusalem, Islamabad, etc. blown up by islamic radicals trying to kill infidels. Yes, not every terror act is perpetrated by muslims, but no other group in the world has so embraced the murder of innocent civilians as a part of their belief system like the Islamic radicals have. I know the mantra is that the radicals supposedly make up only a very small portion of Islam, but if they are such a small group, why is the rest of Islam not actively stamping those savages out of existence? Why do other countries have to take the lead in trying to root out and destroy that wing of Islam? Why are people not beating down the doors of mosques where the Imams preach violence and demanding that they stop calling themselves muslims? Why are the "peaceful" muslims not demanding the closing of the Madrassas and the removal of Jihad glorifying cartoons from Arabic networks? The public immage is that these things are accepted. Any criticism that is aimed at these things by muslims is either very muted and balanced by similar criticism of the US or Israel, or it is done by a lone person who is then threatened by others and scorned in large part as a traitor.
I agree with you that it is an inaccurate stereotype, but it is a stereotype that has been earned through decades of terrorism perpetrated by islamic radicals, while the mainstream muslims sat quietly on the sidelines and refused to get involved in trying to prevent it. "Support" of terrorism by muslims is a hard cycle to break. Every time a suicide bomb blows up in Israel, murdering innocent men, women, and children, instead of condemning the act as hateful under any form of religion, we get a steady stream of excuses about what Israel has done wrong that made the bombing justified. When a bomb blows up in Sadr City, there are plenty of Sunnis who mutter under their breath that it was justified after how the Shiite militias have murdered Sunnis. When dozens of Sunni bodies are found tortured and executed, there are plenty of Shia who mumble under their breath about how they probably deserved it for the bombings in Shia areas.
It is a natural reaction, but what it really is is much more damaging than that...it is a personal rationalization of savage behavior towards innocent civilians. There are no circumstances under which ANYBODY should EVER believe that a suicide bomber was justified...whether it is an insurgent trying to kill American soldiers, a Palestinian trying to kill Israelis, a Shia trying to kill Sunnis, or a Sunni trying to kill Shiites. It is ALWAYS WRONG! And every voice needs to proclaim it as such and not try to justify why it was done.
I know that there are millions of good and decent muslims who deplore such attacks on anybody, but your voices are not being heard by the world. Only when the world sees the streets of the middle east filled with thousands of demonstrators condemning a suicide bombing instead of celebrating it, will the stereotype begin to erode away. But as long as the voices condemning such attacks are hidden away on blogs or in private conversations, the impression the world gets is driven by the celebrations in the Palestinian streets, and the televised statements by the political leaders who rationalize the irrational.
I know you are in an impossible situation Mama, and that you have little chance at making such a difference in your current situation, so I don't mean to sound harsh with what I have said above...but it is reality...the world sees Islam and the countries where it dominates as places where terror acts against innocent people are accepted or even embraced. Until the public voices in Islamic countries change and begin condemning terrorism as strongly as they condemn Israel and the US, the world will continue to see Islam as supporting terrorism.
In the meantime, understand that our movies and television shows are just as unrepresentative of reality and real opinion as the shows on Al Jazeera are. Just because the terrorists in 24 are muslims doesn't mean that every American thinks every muslim is a terrorist. Most of us recognize the difference between what is in a movie and what is real. I live in a neighborhood in Texas that is very conservative and that voted heavily for President Bush in both elections. We have two mosques within a block of our subdivision and many of my neighbors are muslims who pray at the mosques. I know that they are not terrorists. They live in the neighborhood, they mow their lawns, their kids play in the streets (although sometimes they play cricket instead of baseball) and they are just people...living their lives...like you...like me. I don't like the stereotype on TV shows that all Texans are ignorant rednecks, but I also know that most people realize it isn't true, so I don't let it bother me that much. Jack Bauer doesn't live in my neighborhood and neither does JR Ewing...we are just a bunch of people who get along, regardless of our religion. Hopefully someday, Iraq will return to that same reality so that you and your family can live in peace.
salam adil,
One distinction needs to be made about the groups in your post...in every case, they are or were groups operating in a single country or small group of countries and their acts are aimed at a specific desired outcome (overthrow of a government, independence for a region, etc.). Only one group spans the globe with the reach of its attacks, the locations of its followers, and attacks others based solely on their ideology...radical islam. None of that makes it right...they are all wrong, and are all savages for using terrorism to reach their goals. But it is hard to stereotype anybody from Northern Ireland as a catholic terrorist, when no other catholic group is supporting them and they are not attacking anybody outside of Northern Ireland or Britain. Nobody outside of Sri Lanka worries about being attacked by the Tamil Tigers, because the Tigers are not trying to bring their struggle for independence to the globe. Islamic radicals DO believe they are going to export their Islamic revolution to the world, and they have struck in every corner of the globe in one form or another. I am not trying to say one groups is better or worse than the other...they are all savages...but the global stereotype of the islamic terrorist exists because islamic radicals ARE the one group that has the desire and the demonstrated capability to commit terrorist acts worldwide.
Hi, great post, my compliments.
Arabs were regarded either as terrorists or stupid is not something new. Some mentioned the Palastanians, others also mention the attack on the twin tower, and there are who look at it from a historical prespective, especially with the Ottoman empire spreading Islam by sword and conquor. Remember that until now Spain consider the spread of islam in their country as "moors invasion". I can enlist many other factors further with giving more explanations, examples, but one worth mentioning is the fact that the west look at the Arabs as people who have everything, inlcuding huge burrid under ground, but they cannot handle or exploit these resource in the right way without relying on 'outsiders'
My compliments and greetings
great post:
i already gave my opinion, so let me copy-paste it here:
taken from IraqiBlogodrome:
------------
"not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims"
while not being 100% accurate, it remains ACCURATE nonetheless.
what we can do about it:
1) the easy part: to talk about how islam is a religion of peace (and all that) to everyone, using every chance we get to educate non-muslims about what true islam is about.
2) the HARD part: to look to our own families and communities: educate MUSLIMS.
speak out against those OF US who preach death and violence in the name of God, religion, or anything else for that matter.
how many idiots roam around spreading sect/religion-based hate? how many morons claim if you kill innocent people you'll go to heaven? TOO MANY. AND they are all endorsed one way or the other by muslim communities.
so, while i will stand with Mammy's and Sunny's posts, i will say this as well:
"we are not ALL INNOCENT. some of us are covering up for criminals and murderers simply because we are brothers in islam"
Treasure of Baghdad,
Even after all this time, you don't understand what a terrorist is? Why? Have you not seen enough of them with your own eyes, by now?
A terrorist victimizes the innocent to serve an agenda. Usually a political or religious agenda. The intent is to frighten or intimidate people into doing something they don't want to do.
That Korean student was not a terrorist. Did he issue any demands? Has anybody come out and said "We are going to send somebody to do it again if you don't do xyz" ? Did he leave us a message saying that he was doing it in support of a cause?
That guy was just a criminal mass murderer. Not a terrorist. And that's why we don't call him a terrorist.
Timothy McVeigh was arguably a terrorist. He bombed the Oklahoma City Federal Building because of political grievances with the US government. I only say "arguably" because he never made any demands. As far as I can tell, he acted out of pure hate and didn't expect to accomplish anything other than killing a lot of people.
Anarki-13, great comment. You made me feel like there's still some hope, which I haven't felt in a long time. Thanks :)
There are plenty of Muslims in America Mama. They represent your religion well. Ofcourse there are many in America who have never had contact with them and are prejudice against things that they do not know. This is pretty normal in America it would seem. To discriminate against things and people we do not understand. I went through some hard times when I first moved to America, but after much interaction, 3 years, I was eventually accepted by my peers. So I hope more Muslims and non Muslims can interact with one another in America to combat the brainwashing that we are being sujected to in the media.
""not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims".
This statement is wrong, not all terrorist are Muslims.
Those who invade other country for fake and fabricated reasons, are terrorist but not Muslims.
Those who stole the fortune of the whole country are not Muslims.
Those who killed tortured and raped people by the name of democracy are not Muslims.
The real Terrorist is the USA government which did all those crimes and blame Muslims for defending their religion and country.
Yes the radicals Muslims are killing people and are really behave like terrorists, but who are the radical Muslims?, who made them?, does any body forget who invent Taliban?, do you forget who support Bin Ladin and armed his followers?
I think the answer is very clear, it is all the USA government.
But we don't say all the terrorists are Christians, cause we don't believe that who did those thing have a religion. "The terrorists and the terrorism have no religion."
Programmer Craig:
you're welcome :)
Dr. Truthteller:
"Yes the radicals Muslims are killing people and are really behave like terrorists, but who are the radical Muslims?, who made them?, does any body forget who invent Taliban?, do you forget who support Bin Ladin and armed his followers?"
Sir:
yes, i see the logic there: but nonetheless:
Taliban are but a fraction of the general f*ck-up that is "Islamic" terrorism. what about the militias running loose in Iraq? what about Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, what about those in Algeria, what about what about..
the easiest way to recruit soldiers these days is to brainswash them using ayat and ahadith which someone falsified or interpreted falsely, then you have these soldiers believe they have God on their side, and thus cannot do any wrong.
the "west" has a right to call these animals "Islamic" because WE, REAL muslims are silent against them, we dont dare speak out. our religious authorities are either controlled by them or is controlling them.
if my own family call me "Red", no doubt if the rest of the world sees that, they'll call me Red as well.
are you telling me each and every last "islamic" terrorist out there is just doing what the western world is telling him?
even the street-thugs who are doing the real killing?
are you telling me that the low-level soldiers sponsored by Mahdi Army (Shi'a), or the Iraqi Islamic Party (Sunni)
are ALL run by western command?
if the answer is NO: then this is what i'm talking about: let US fix OURSELVES because no one else will do it for us. someone else might have started the problem, but they sure as hell won't solve it.
if the answer is YES: i can't possibly understand how it can be yes :)
Mama please read surah (chapter) 9 of the Quran.
That chapter is not peaceful.
Therefore islam is not a religion of peace.
oh yeah another thing.
If a muslim man leaves islam, under shariah he is supposed to be put to death.
This simple fact proves islam is not peaceful.
Treasure of Baghdad
I didn't say that all muslims are terrorists I said "all Muslims AREN'T terrorists.
Salam,
You are correct I didn't mention those other groups. I was speaking from an American perspective. As an American I should only be concerned with those who pose a threat to America, not to Ireland Sri Lanka or Burma.
There is a definition of terrorism, and as far as I am aware it doesn't read "a loose group of ppl from dozens of countries who are not in contact with each other but happen to have the same faith and who (logically) commit(ted) terrorism in several different countries".
It's very American (sorry.... well, possibly not ;) ) to say "I don't count the terrorists who operate outside of where it hurts me".
Craig gave the correct definition.
But let's stick to the wrong definition for a moment. Christians are a rather dangerous bunch as well.
No matter how some ppl would like to define it, both Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland have spawned terrorists. -> country #1
The religiously overzealous in America who planted bombs at abortion clinics are Christian terrorists. -> country #2
The RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion) killing politicians and other ppl in Germany in the 80's were left-wing anarchist... Christians. -> country #3
Unfortunately I am not informed enough to continue that list (it's not my style to make things up...), hopefully someone will help me out.
Last but not least I'd advise anyone quoting the Q'ran to prove how non-peaceful Islam is to sit down and do a bit of reading in the Old Testament.
Oh, and hello, Sunshine's mom (and Sunshine)
(Insider comment to Craig: Was that abusive towards anyone I was addressing? :P ;) )
Thank you Mama for providing us the URL (Link) for noterror.info. Please post it again after the allitions are made.
Most of the problem is that most of us do not understand the Muslim Religion of Islam. We only know what we read from various sources.
Dr. Truth-Teller posted some items on the Koran for us many months ago. At that time I loved going to his blogspot and reading his posts. Then for some reason he changed and I dislike his blogspot.
Sunshine told us long ago that there was not hate between Sunni and Shii people. I am sure she is right because she is a very intelligent and lovely young lady.
I agree with Anarki-13's posts. We need more information.
I can not understand why police officers turn their heads and do not stop potential suicide bombers. I have read about this on different posts.
Killing innocent school children and innocent civilian shoppers who are trying to purchase supplies for their families is beyoud my understanding.
Thank you again for providing us information. My prayers for innocent Iraqi people will continue.
Dear Mama,
I would like to add that The US was the one who invented the terrorism things by founding Usama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan to fight the Russians, and now they are following the Americans wherever they go, and every one knows that they are using the religion to fool the young men to use them as a suicide bombers.
It has nothing to do with the religion; how do you explain using al-Qaida to an Iranian weapons to kill the Shiite in the Shiite areas in Iraq?
If you will compare the number of civilians killed by al-Qaida in Iraq and all over the world you will find it much bigger than the number of the US soldiers they have killed in their operations and most of those civilians are Muslims..
I know about that because,
I was there..
i was there,
I would like to add that The US was the one who invented the terrorism things by founding Usama Bin Ladin in Afghanistan
Who are you trying to fool, fool? The PLO was mass murdering people in Jordan, Lebanon and Israel before bin Ladin started shaving! Wait... he never actually started shaving, but that's not the point!
And what about Hezbollah? Where was bin Ladin in 1982? In London chasing hookers and spending his daddy's money?
Tell us, what did you see while "you were there" ? And where was that, exactly? Because I may have been there, too. Maybe we can compare notes.
Mel, no :)
And one more thing,
If you will compare the number of civilians killed by al-Qaida in Iraq and all over the world you will find it much bigger than the number of the US soldiers they have killed
And if you made the same comparison in Lebanon you would find that most of Hezbollah's victims were there fellow Shia in Amal. And Amal's supporters. They only killed 243 Americans, and took some dozen hostage. At least one plane hijacking. But they killed thousands of their fellow Shia.
Most of the PLO's victims in Lebanon were Lebanese civilians, mostly Christian but really just about anyone who got in their way, or opposed them in any way, got killed.
I suppose I don't have to tell you that almost all of the Israeli victims of Palestinian terrorism have been random civilians, do I? But I suppose you believe that they deserve it?
in their operations and most of those civilians are Muslims..
Which is mere co-incidence. This is the way Muslims fight. It has been since 1973. Wherever there is conflict involving Muslims, the same thing has happened. Over and over and over again. You know that. Because you were there.
Mama, that's why terrorism does have a religion. Sorry, but it's the truth. Maybe if enough Muslims speak out about it, though (as you have), it will stop someday.
The "terrorism" by the IRA had nothing what so ever to do with religion. There were non-catholics in the IRA. How many mujahadeen do you know that are non-muslim?
Terrorism has no religion begins with this sentence...It's shame how many American movies and series, symbolize the bad guys with Muslim characters, as in 24 series, all the terrorists either speak Arabic, or wear hats with "No god but Allah" wrote on it. why?.
The answer to "why" is, Americans like everyone else demonize those who threaten them. Muslim terrorists, Chinese Communists and Soviets have all shared the spotlight in Hollywood as villains.
When I was young (in the '50s and '60s) the NAZIs and Japanese were the primary villains.
Notice I stresed , NAZIs and NOT Germans. I think most Americans make the same distinction between Muslim Terrorists ie. JIHADISTs and the "civilized" Muslims.
This answer probably is incomplete and unsatisfactory, but can there be a complete and satisfactory answer?
So many Americans feel the need to defend or attack in response to your post. I am an American and a mother, and all I feel the need to do right now is give you a hug. My heart goes out to you. We share a common bond - we want the best for our babies, want to be there for them when they need us, want them to grow up safely and have a bright future. May this be over soon for all of us. I admire your bravery and wish the best for you and your family, and for all the families in Iraq. Regardless of political or religious beliefs, we mothers need to stick together to make this a better world for our children.
Right on Tamara... Who cares what religion the terrorists are claiming, the point is, they are a threat to everyone and we must do what is needed to stop them.
[craig] "Mama, that's why terrorism does have a religion. Sorry, but it's the truth. Maybe if enough Muslims speak out about it, though (as you have), it will stop someday."
That's just stupid. That's like saying that state terror is a "Christian tactic" because the US uses it. Or France.
The reality is that religion has become enmeshed within greater power struggles within the world, and that most of these power struggles are in the Middle East.
Nobody points to the war between Germany and Russia and say, "Oh, these Christians are evil, look at them kill each other", even though the majority of German and Russian soldiers were undoubtedly Christian.
Your logic is whacked, Craig.
Bruno,
That's just stupid. That's like saying that state terror is a "Christian tactic" because the US uses it. Or France.
You erroneously identify "state terror". I don't know where you're from, but you must know this fallacious as it applies to the US. You should also know that although the US is predominantly Christian in it ethos, it is not Christian when it comes to dogma and orthodoxy.
Islamic/Muslim Terror is a valid description since the protagonists profess the ethos, dogma and orthodoxy of Islam.
I'd be interested to how you would sugar-coat Islamic/Muslim Terror otherwise.
[bruno] “That's like saying that state terror is a "Christian tactic" because the US uses it.”
[ripama] " You erroneously identify "state terror". I don't know where you're from, but you must know this fallacious as it applies to the US."
It's not fallacious at all.
The US often supports groups that would be considered terrorist in different circumstances (eg Mujahideen en Khalq) or supports governments that indulge in terrorisation of their populace (Pinochet, Diem, Reza Pahlavi) or, engages directly in tactics that are designed to achieve subordination through terror. The last example is fully borne out by the doctrine of “shock and awe” the US used on Iraq, which is designed to specifically break the will of a nation to resist the imposition of US rule - through terror. We can discuss this in detail, if you like.
[ripama] “Islamic/Muslim Terror is a valid description since the protagonists profess the ethos, dogma and orthodoxy of Islam.”
Well, in that case, Christian Terror would also be accurate, since the leaders of the US generally profess themselves to be Christian, leading a Christian Army led by Christian Generals. ( Look! Bush is a Christian! Must be Christian terror! )
My point is that if somebody picks fights with Muslims, then obviously Muslims will fight back. The cause of their fighting is not that they are Muslim, but that they have been attacked. The whole Islam=terror paradigm is merely a frame used to facilitate violence against Muslims through their dehumanisation.
I repeat again: The reality is that religion has become enmeshed within greater power struggles within the world, and that most of these power struggles are in the Middle East.
[ripama] “I'd be interested to how you would sugar-coat Islamic/Muslim Terror otherwise.”
That all boils down to what terror IS.
I regard resistance to occupation as an honourable thing.
On the other hand, terror is the use of force against noncombatants. In the latter case, I don’t “sugar coat” anything … people that kill civilians to “make a statement” should be killed themselves, regardless of what religion they do or don’t believe in.
Bruno,
Fair enough. You've taken the time to support your argument in a reasoned manner.
My hat's off to you.
That's just stupid. That's like saying that state terror is a "Christian tactic" because the US uses it. Or France.
No, bruno. It's your comment that was stupid. In order for it to hold water, the following would all have to be true:
a) All Christian Countries would have to be bound together under some sort of pan-nationalistic umbrella
b) All Christian countries would have to use the same (terrorist) tactics
c) All Christian countries would have to claim they use these tactics because God wants them to (or whatever bullshit Muslims tell themselves that they think makes evil into good)
If those three things were true, I would be saying that Christianity was a religion that supported terrorism. And I wouldn't be a Christian, anymore. But none of those things are true, Bruno.
The reality is that religion has become enmeshed within greater power struggles within the world, and that most of these power struggles are in the Middle East.
That's a lie. There is only ONE religion that is involved in power struggles across the globe, Bruno. Nobody over here on the Christian side thinks we are fighting for our religion. And I say that as a believing Christian. Where are the Hindus killing each other over their religion? The Jews? The Buddhists? In fact if you look at places where non-Muslims are involved in violence right now, I think you'll find in almost every case, they are under attack - by Muslims.
Nobody points to the war between Germany and Russia and say, "Oh, these Christians are evil, look at them kill each other", even though the majority of German and Russian soldiers were undoubtedly Christian.
You can't be that stupid. Really. You can't be. Please tell me I haven't spent so much of my time arguing with somebody who has the IQ of a Golden Retriever.
[bruno] That's just stupid. That's like saying that state terror is a "Christian tactic" because the US uses it. Or France.
[craig] “No, bruno. It's your comment that was stupid. […]If those three things were true, I would be saying that Christianity was a religion that supported terrorism.”
Tell me, Craig, WTF language do you use to program? Basic? I can’t imagine that anybody as dense as yourself ever made it past Logic 101 in whatever pestilential college you attended.
READ MY COMMENTS AGAIN
I’m precisely claiming that US terror is NOT Christian terror, even though there are strong Christian undertones in the US as a country and a military. It’s a criticism of the people that criticise terror carried out by Islamists as being a function of their religion. Man! Lay off the booze.
[bruno] The reality is that religion has become enmeshed within greater power struggles within the world, and that most of these power struggles are in the Middle East.
[craig] “That's a lie. There is only ONE religion that is involved in power struggles across the globe, Bruno.”
If one accepts the ludicrous * frame * that *you’ve* put on the discussion, maybe.
But the same as US terror can’t be framed as Christian terror, Saudi or Palestinian terror can’t be framed as Islamic terror. If we accept your argument of “ALL” Christian countries having to be involved in terror to indicate Christian terror we could apply this criterion to Islamic countries as well. Where’s the massive Indonesian or Malaysian terror in the name of God? The Kuwaiti suicide bombers? The Omani head choppers?
Your blanket definition simply holds no water, sorry.
[craig] “Nobody over here on the Christian side thinks we are fighting for our religion.”
ROTFL! I guess General Boykin slipped you by?
“Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin, whose promotion and appointment was confirmed by the Senate in June, has said publicly that he sees the war on terrorism as a clash between Judeo-Christian values and Satan, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday. Appearing in dress uniform before a religious group in Oregon in June, Boykin said Islamic extremists hate the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christians. ... And the enemy is a guy named Satan."
[...]
Discussing a U.S. Army battle against a Muslim warlord in Somalia in 1993, Boykin told one audience, "I knew my god was bigger than his. I knew that my god was a real god and his was an idol."
[...]
Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said "there is a very wide gray area on what the rules permit" but that "at first blush, it doesn't look like any rules were broken."”
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/16/rumsfeld.boykin.ap/
[bruno] “Where are the Hindus killing each other over their religion?”
Ever hear of the Tamil Tigers? (No, they’re not a baseball team.)
[craig] “The Buddhists?”
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo
[craig] “The Jews?”
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)
My point stands: Islamic terror is NOT a function of Islam. Religious terror is a coincidental to the religion to which the terrorists belong … NOT a cause of that terror.
[bruno] Nobody points to the war between Germany and Russia and say, "Oh, these Christians are evil, look at them kill each other", even though the majority of German and Russian soldiers were undoubtedly Christian.
[craig] “You can't be that stupid.”
Gott mit uns, Craig, Gott mit uns.
I notice that your denial of my assertion is actually an ad hominem attack.
In other words, useless, just like you.
Bruno, do you even make sense to yourself? Seriously, pretend you are somebody else, and read that last comment again. And see if you can figure out what it's supposed to mean. I'm not going to waste my time with trying to unravel all that mess.
Oh, dear, Craigie boy seems to have reached an impasse. Perhaps he realises that the argument I lay out is correct. Or, more likely, his brain just overloaded when he tried to follow a logical strand of thinking.
I wish that all you folks who want to argue with each other would do it on your own blogspots. Why waste this ladies space with crap that doesn't do anything for her constant supporters?
Wayne, if you bother to scroll back to my original post, you'll see that it was on-topic and directly supporting what Mama herself had said. Other people decided to come and make a war out of it.
Wayne, if you bother to scroll back to my original post, you'll see that it was on-topic and directly supporting what Mama herself had said. Other people decided to come and make a war out of it.
For some strange reason I thought you might be trying to tell the truth, so I did go look at your first comment here, Bruno. Looks a lot like a personal attack on one of her other commentators (me) as far as I can tell. In fact, you didn't even mention anything from her post. You quoted nothing but my previous comments. And then insulted me for having the opinions I have. And now you say "other people came and decided to make a war out of it" - fuck you, Bruno. You're a dishonest son of a bitch.
Bruno and Programmer Craig, I read your comments on other blogspots. Sometimes I agree with your comments and other times I disagree.
Your disrespect and vulgar comments on this lady's site irritates me, regardless of my agreement or disagreement.
Mama
Is this the TV program/channel you are referring to?
http://news.independent.co.uk/media/article2578481.ece
http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_03_12/cover.html
In England we don’t have a problem with Islam or Muslims, we regard them as an asset to our economy, it’s America and the trash like this that it spews out that is our problem. What programs like this, dubbed in Arabic, does to win hearts and minds of Iraqis with our forces serving in your country are difficult to see.
Johnny in London
Wayne,
I stopped reading the comment sections of Sunshine's blog because I was having difficulty trying to maintain a positive attitude with all the dishonesty that western leftists like Bruno (and Johnny) like to spew on Iraqi blogs. And I didn't want to pollute Sunshine's wonderful blog with a bunch of rantings between people know-it-all westerners.
This is not Sunshine's blog. This is a serious topic, and I am going to state my serious opinion. Unless Mama asks me to leave, in which case I will. I'll be damned if I will let somebody like Bruno spread his malice and not say anything about it. And speaking of malice, lets get to Johnny.
Johnny! What were you thinking!? To make such a claim 4 days after an extensive study was published that shows you to be completely wrong? Do you even read the news? Well, let me inform you...
In England we don’t have a problem with Islam or Muslims, we regard them as an asset to our economy
An asset to your ECONOMY, is it? What are they, slaves? We view all immigrants to teh US as an asset to our SOCIETY.
I'm sure that was just a little accidental truth that snuck through. A freudian slip? You obviously intended to say the politically correct thing, instead, right?
it’s America and the trash like this that it spews out that is our problem.
Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream
According to that survey, America is the best place on planet earth for Muslims to live. According to Muslims themselves.
Britain is WAY down the list. But don't take my word for it, the results are right there for all to see. And go ahead and download the whole thing in .PDF if you really want to dig into the details.
This part is really good here:
# Muslim Americans reject Islamic extremism by larger margins than do Muslim minorities in Western European countries.
Your country did very poorly on that. And over TEN TIMES more Muslims in Britain live near or below the poverty line than in the United States.
We could take you to school on the proper way to assimilate immigrants, Johnny. And you could really use the lesson, based on some things I've heard.
What programs like this, dubbed in Arabic, does to win hearts and minds of Iraqis with our forces serving in your country are difficult to see.
So, get your forces out of Iraq then. Bye bye.
If I was you, Johnny, I'd be thinking about how to win American hearts and minds. That's going to be a lot more important to Britain the future than Iraqi hearts and minds. I think if you look into it, you'll find the British aren't very popular in America, any more.
Right, Bruno?
I agree with aNarki-13 we need to fix our selves first, to defeat any bad things that harm muslims reputation and religion.the muslims' leaders should make powerful emphasis that killing innocents is not jihad,it's murder.and islam is nilling that.
Mama
Some Muslims have gone on crusade against much of the world and claim to represent all of Islam. They have declared that those Muslims who disagree with their aims and their tactics are not true in their faith.
The tactics now employed in Iraq by some Muslims against other Muslims was acceptable at one time, when the targets were infidels. One Muslim Palestinian translated on US television said (paraphrased) "What else can we do? The Jews have tanks and we do not!" to explain the suicide-bombing of civilians in market places and on buses. I have had the thought that Palestine/Israel might have been like Iraq is now, if not for the the 'oppressive' Israeli tactics.
An American student by the name of Osama has sued his school district, claiming racial and religious discrimination and harrassment because of his name. The 'white' German-Americans who felt they had to change their names from Hitler had no recourse to the courts in their time.
Hitler told the German people that they were victims. A German general proposed tactics during the Soviet siege of Berlin that would spare more civilians' lives. Hitler replied that his people had failed him, so he did not care if they lived or died.
Islamic extremists have told the Muslim masses that they are victims. Their tactics in Iraq show the same callousness towards the common people as did Hitler's.
Thank you for the link to the Islam web site. Most of it would not load for me for some reason, but I did appreciate the comment that terrorism has no religion.
If only that were true. Throughout time, religious fanatics and "righteous" people have used religion to terrorize others, the Christian church lobbing its fair share of pain and suffering, with its 500 years of witch burnings, its pogroms, and in recent decades in the US, its terrorists bombing medical clinics that perform procedures with which they do not agree.
I pray to every god that will listen: Soften the hearts of your followers. Fill them with love. Show us all how to live in peace.
Alot have been said, therefore I don't see the need to go into a long comment. Just a while ago I wrote this...
http://endoh.blogspot.com/2007/07/racial-harmony.html
As an observant from M'sia, I do believe streotyping one religion with terrorism is totally unacceptable. In every bombing happened, we straight away pointing our finger to one direction, without even bother to find out first what triggered the acts. Blaming is easy but to find the cause of such act require unbias judgement. We cannot rely 100% on the news as the truth is normally subjective - open to any interpretation. Eg. some might be labelled as terrorist but this same person might be called as hero by the others.
Sidney Shelodn once described ih his book about a bombing in Egypt. Killed numbers of Americans. Everyone blamed the Muslims. But what they didn't know is the bombing was actually planned by the US in order to affirmed their accusations. So, stop pointing and blaming. One finger you pinting to others, 3 go back to u!
an observant-
Treasure of Baghdad is correct. Americans tend so easily to forget that they have had many terrorists of thier own. White anglo saxon USA citizens born and bred.
Who is Timothy McVeigh? Who was the unibomber? Oh my goodness...there are many many examples of Americian terrorists!
What about the radical fundamentalist christians? They too...have been known to commit acts of terrorism, as has PETA. Come on folks....not ALL terrorists are Muslims, and if you heard that on Talk Radio...well..is someone like Rush Limbaugh???
Laurie
the real terrorism are the non muslim this is a fact that they ll never admit it
islam is a religion of peace and those who r pretending to be muslim are wrrong and they dont understand what the meaning of that or what have written in quran cos islam doesnt teach us to kill people or even a fly... and those people who just say things about islam are really stupid sorry to say that coz they just believe what their media report which is not true coz the media is just a coward and scared cos islam is spreading the more they show ubtrue things the more their people they convert into islam coz those people they did search and red and have knowledge about true islam not like people who just say bullshit without no knowledge, before u jump to the conlusion u have to be sure of what ur saying and get the drift from islam and u have to get informations from people of knowledge of islam not just a passenger ...islam is a big name and full of details and not anyone understand the meaning of quran ,thats why some people misunderstand it and they call thmeselves muulsim by name,islam is a great religion and its the religion of god and heaven
heaven =islam=good muslim=religious muslim....not those who kill themselves...
and i consider the real terrorism is coming from non muslim people who kill each others with crimes like what we hear in uk,usa,france and other countries that r not muslim oh my god they have a lot of crime and abuse and cheating and a lot of things that u cant even count thats not life ,,thats why most of them commit suicide and most of them they get depressed coz they have nothing to do even their religion is not covincing and doesnt give any peace of mind thats why some of them they converted to islam coz they found relief and at ease in islam which is true..thats the real islam,,,there is a lot to say aboutt islam but i have difficulties to explain them in english as its not my language so if u want really to know more about the true islam go and do ome search and ask people of knowledge
we dont really succsses in life or pass an exam witouht studying or work hard so its same u cant give ur opinion about something that u dont know or just heard about which may be wrrong....im just being honest cos islam is the religion f god coz somethimes i feel sorry for some nice people who r not muslim but they ll never see the heaven never and this is a fact and reality that u should know even if ur a good person so first u have to be muslim but not just a muslim i mean a good muslim............
and our hands fingers are not the same so u cant judge like that cos there is bad people and good people everywhere ....but islam teach us to be good and fear god and work hard and be respectful and ....................
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